I am bursting at the seams excited today because I have a brand new style of episode and I cannot wait to dive in.
In this episode, we welcome Lillian from Lillian & Company to the podcast – but we are turning the tables. Today, I’m not interviewing Lillian. Lillian is interviewing ME.
Lillian is one of my private 1:1 coaching clients, not to mention an absolutely incredible branding and web designer. We’ve worked together for so long that she is the perfect person to help you guys get to know me on a whole different level.
Trust me when I say this episode is JAM PACKED with all sorts of juicy value. You’re about to get a totally open, honest look inside my brain, my business and at what I believe and how I operate. Nothing’s off limits in this episode and we get into it ALL.
If you’ve ever thought of working with me or just want to know more about my beliefs and what I’m all about, then this episode has all that and more.
Not only that, you are gonna fall in love with Lillian and her amazing attitude, so make sure you stick around to find out more about what she does and how you can soak up more of her vibe!
So, time to hand the reins over to Lillian and let’s get started!
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- My beliefs on all things coaching, growth, energy and SO much more
- An inside look at what it’s like to work with me
- Why having a coach is so freaking powerful
- How I run my business with ease AND how I can help you do it too
Tune in to the episode here:
🎙 Listen on iTunes – elleymae.com/itunes
🎙 Listen on Spotify – elleymae.com/spotify
🎙 Listen on iHeartRadio – elleymae.com/iheartradio
The Episode Breakdown:
Elley: Today, I have one of my private 1:1 clients Lillian here with me and we’re actually turning the tables – I’m not interviewing Lillian, Lillian is interviewing me.
Lillian and I have worked together for a long time now and we have a relationship like no other, so when I was thinking about who could come on and interview me, of course it had to be her!
Lillian is going to be asking me whatever she wants to ask me. I really want this to be an episode where you guys get to know me on a different level. I get the feeling that Lillian’s going to be asking me questions that you’ll want to know the answers to if you’re thinking of working with me, if you just want to know how my brain works, if you want to know about my failures, biggest wins, why I do things and my beliefs.
Please make sure you stick around until the end of the episode to check out Lillian and her work, she is the most incredible branding and web designer ever.
Now enough from me. Lillian, take the reins and ask me whatever you want!
Lillian: Can I just say, this is gonna be f*cking awesome. I’m really excited for this and so grateful for you to be having me on to actually interview *you*.
I want to open up the coaching container as much as we possibly can, so that everyone can really understand what it’s like to work with Elley and what her business looks like behind the scenes.
Let’s start with a pretty juicy question. We’ve been coaching together for around 18 months, if not longer, and I’ve experienced so many shifts along the way in your vibe and your approach to coaching. It’s always felt relevant at the time to me, but I’d love to know what some of those shifts are from your perspective. What were the experiences that have facilitated those shifts, whether they were failures, wins, resources or tools?
Elley: The thing about being a really great coach or mentor is the ability to grow and to know that as you grow, your skills and abilities will naturally evolve as well. I’ve grown both as a person and with my business, and you would have seen a big shift in my confidence, my self-worth and even in the way that I show up and sell. The other great thing is that as you grow and evolve as a coach or mentor, it’s happens with your clients as well.
I think we’re always failing and we’re always winning, but I don’t think there’s anything specific in terms of pivotal moments where a failure brought about a particular change.
Lillian: I’ve had people ask me before why I’ve stayed with you for so long instead of moving on to another coach. The big reason is because you keep growing and I keep realising I’ve got more to learn from you.
Elley: I get it from both sides as both the coach and the client. I’ve stayed with my coach for over a year. The thought of being with someone long-term when you have that kind of relationship where you’re on the same page – I can’t explain it.
Lillian: I think it’s a sign of a good coach. It’s not that they teach you more than anyone else or have some kind of secret sauce that other coaches don’t have, it’s about connecting on a personal level and having the same values.
Elley: Those values and how you relate to someone on a personal level are so important, especially when it’s private 1:1 coaching. I think people underestimate how much time you’re actually spending with your clients or coach when you’re working in 1:1 coaching. You want to vibe with their energy, values, personality and to be on the same page, because if those things don’t match then you’re going to get into this intimate container with that person and just disagree on everything.
Lillian: Let’s get some insight into some of your values. What’s some of the common coaching advice or beliefs that you either believe in or don’t believe in, and why?
Elley: I want to preframe this by saying that I believe that everyone has a way of doing business that works for them. There are coaches out there that teach the things that I’m about to say and it’s not to say that they’ve got it wrong and my way is the right way, but there are beliefs out there in the coaching industry that I do think are toxic. They’re the types of beliefs that are doing more harm than good.
A big one is when people say that you can’t charge X amount until you’ve invested that amount yourself. For example, if you’re a coach and you want to charge $10k for 1:1 coaching but you’ve never paid someone $10k for 1:1 coaching, you can’t charge that.
Why is this a thing in the coaching industry when outside of the coaching industry it isn’t? Let’s say I need to pay $5k to get my fence done. Does the person doing that fencing need to have paid someone else $5k for a fence before they can charge it to me? It doesn’t make sense to me.
These are the beliefs that a lot of coaches use and they use them as a marketing technique to get people into their programs. It blows my mind that people are working with these coaches with that in their mindset. That’s not how it works.
I believe that if you expect people to invest in you, *you* should be investing in you. There are so many benefits in that. Does that mean that you should have to pay someone $10k to work with them so that people will pay you $10k to work with you? No.
That belief does so much more harm than good, because people are out here going into debt and feeling like they’re not worthy of charging the prices that they know they should be charging because they haven’t yet paid someone else that. I think that’s wrong. It’s only in the coaching industry or the online world that I’ve seen it.
Lillian: The only other place that you see it is in pyramid schemes. We can all agree that a pyramid scheme is not the vibe, and we don’t want to turn the coaching industry into that either.
You said the only reason why someone would say that is for marketing reasons. What damage does that do to the coach who says that and brings in clients from that place of fear?
Elley: To me, it’s unethical marketing. I really believe that when people invest from a place of fear, that’s disempowered investing. When you invest from a disempowered place, you aren’t going to get the transformation and the experience that you want.
Take it from me – way back in the day, I made an investment in a program that was huge for me at the time. I wanted to get to 6-figures in my first year of business, so I joined this program and did it from a place of fear and disempowerment. I felt like I wasn’t going to get there unless I had a coach and learned how *she* did it. I thought that she was going to be the person to get me to 6-figures, rather than being empowered and thinking, “I’m going to do it anyway, and it would be really good to have a coach to have the support and learn how they did it.” There’s a difference between those two things.
I went into that whole experience thinking that she had the answers and put all this pressure on her as a coach, which is not cool to do as a client. At the end of the container, I didn’t feel any further along than I was. It was nothing to do with her, it was everything to do with me.
What I learned during that stage was how I *didn’t* like to do business. I don’t like doing sales calls, I don’t like convincing people why they should work with me, and I don’t like telling people to give me their credit card information on the phone. They were the things that I learned in that space.
If I had given myself time before I invested in that to actually look at the program and the way that she sold, I would have realised that I didn’t like it and it didn’t feel good for me. That’s one time during my journey where I put a lot on the line but I did it from the wrong place, so of course it didn’t pay off.
It’s important to differentiate between when you’re investing in something because you feel like you have to versus when you feel really empowered. You’re going for the goal and you know that it’s going to happen, but you want the support of a coach to hold you accountable, be there when you have your mental breakdowns (because we all have them) and to pick their brain. You’ve got to do it from the right place.
When you invest from a really empowered place, that’s when you feel like you can do anything. You’ve got this and you’re doing it anyway. You’ve got your coach in your back pocket anytime you need her and you trust yourself. That’s when you get the transformation.
Since that experience, anytime that I invest in myself, no matter the amount, I ask myself – what is my mindset going into this investment? Because if I’m doing it from fear, then I’m not going to do it. Sometimes I’m still scared, because you can be excited and scared at the same time. But if it feels good and I know that investing in this thing is just going to get me where I’m already going faster and with so much more ease, then *that’s* when I know I’m going to get the true transformation.
If you’re a coach or a service provider and you’re wanting to call in more empowered clients who show up and get the results, then you need to make sure that the way you’re bringing them in is really empowering for them. You have to look at yourself first and look at the way that you’re marketing, because if your marketing is off, then the clients that you bring in are going to be off.
Lillian: Along the lines of bringing clients in, I want you to spill the beans – I have noticed that over the last 6 months or so, your approach to selling, launching, bringing people in and programs has changed. Tell the people what’s going on.
Elley: I don’t really vibe with the word “launching” anymore. This is just my belief system but launching feels like this big event where you have to put in all this energy, planning and effort. We do still need to be strategic when we sell, but when you’re building up to this big thing in your business, even if it’s something exciting, what naturally happens is that nerves, stress and anxiety all start to creep in. Then, all of a sudden, this big exciting thing is full of fear and worry.
To me, I don’t like the idea of a launch because I’m always technically “launching”. In other words, I’m always selling. Launching is really just selling and focusing on a specific offer, but I don’t vibe with the idea of launching because I don’t like the build-up and anxiety around it.
Selling should feel effortless and natural as you build it. It isn’t natural when you’re new, but you get to that point by selling now, then selling tomorrow, then selling again and again until it *does* feel natural.
It’s got nothing to do with time or how far along in business you are – it’s got everything to do with habit and consistency. I love the idea of selling something every day because in the beginning, I decided I wanted it to feel natural. I’m consistent and intentional with my content and it flows really well together. When you’re selling, all you’re doing is saying, “Hey, if you’re this person who needs help with this thing, I’ve got a thing for that. Come join it if you want.”
Lillian: Cast back to when I launched my website templates. I planned a big launch around it and when I told my partner I was launching, I remember he was so confused and asked me, “What’s launching? Isn’t that something NASA does? Aren’t you just selling templates?”
Looking back, what he said was so true – we’re not launching something out into the middle of space, we’re literally just selling something. You mentioned that selling comes naturally over time, and I actually think that selling is a natural thing to begin with. We recommend things we love to our friends and family all the time. That’s selling.
Elley: Exactly. We do it in our lives every single day. It’s not only products, we even sell ideas to people. You are right, we sell every day and it is a natural thing.
You get more confident and you get better at doing it over time. I look back at my old content from when I first started and it’s like it’s not even me, but that’s the whole point. That’s the evolution and growth. You might be sh*t at selling right now, but just show up and sell and learn how to get better at it. Learn it, embody it and do it, because that’s how you get better at a skill.
Lillian: And if you try it and embody it and it doesn’t feel good for you, then it’s probably not going to work. Your excitement is the thing that brings people in and makes them want to work with you. If you’re selling in a way that doesn’t feel good, you’re not going to be able to embody that excitement.
Elley: That’s one of the biggest mistakes people make. They think that because it worked for someone else, it’s going to work for them.
Business is an experiment. You should be trying new things and seeing what feels good. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Don’t keep offering things that don’t feel good just because you said you were going to do them.
Your energy is everything when you sell. You need to be clear and confident in what you’re selling, who it’s for and what it’s going to help them with. You need to know that it’s a bangin’ offer. Then you need to be clear and confident in the way that you sell. You’ve got to have those two things on board to attract empowered, aligned clients.
It’s an experiment and it’s a lifelong journey. We can’t always have the answer now. You learn it as you go and that’s why we keep growing, evolving and investing.
Lillian: There’s no secret formula. You get to experiment and find a way that works for you. If you’ve watched Elley selling and thought it’s a cool way of selling, that’s probably a sign that it’s something you want to try and embody.
We hire coaches or service providers because they embody something that we also want to embody. Being able to peek behind the scenes and actually see your thinking and your energy is where I learn the most from you.
Elley: Absolutely. It’s like being able to look inside someone’s brain. Tony Robbins once said, “When you want to learn how to do something that a successful person does, don’t ask them how they did it, ask them why they did it.”
Being able to actually get inside the brain of someone you admire is what’s going to help expand your thinking. They’re the conversations that really bring about the biggest transformations.
Lillian: When you ask someone how they did it, then all you have is a roadmap to do the exact same thing. But if you ask about their thinking and why they did it, then you get an idea of how to apply that thinking to multiple situations. If you just wanted to learn how, then you could probably do that by just watching someone.
Elley: That’s the thing. If you’re really savvy then you could just watch people do things and implement it for yourself. But the reason why people do join programs is because they want to know *why* you do it like that and how it works.
I could teach someone the ‘how’, but they could struggle to implement it because of their beliefs. I’ve given them the strategy but they don’t have the energy behind it.
There is always more to learn. There are always more ways to evolve. Being able to see what’s actually going on under the surface is why I love investing in mentors.
Lillian: That’s something I love about your programs – you don’t just say, “Okay here’s the formula, you just do this, this and this.” You actually go really deep and explain not just how to do it, but also how to embody the beliefs that are going to make it work.
Elley: Business is mostly mindset. It’s a common saying in the coaching industry that business is 80% mindset and 20% strategy. I really do believe that you need both.
Sometimes people come to me because they want to know how to sell better, but really they already know how to do it – what they’re really going to learn is self-confidence, self-belief and self-trust.
Lillian: Honestly, the moment that my business started to change and I got results was the moment I actually started paying attention to you talking about mindset.
Let’s open up our coaching container so that people can see what it looks like on the inside. What have been some of the memorable moments, highlights, struggles or breakthroughs that I went through that have really stuck out to you?
Elley: It’s that your level of self-belief and self-trust is insane compared to where it used to be. Even with what you were talking about before with trying a launch for your website templates – you tried it and realised it didn’t work the way you wanted it to. Every situation like that builds self-trust. Your self-trust over our time together has been phenomenal.
One thing that also really sticks out to me and I’m so proud of you for is your willingness to do the work. There are people who say they want the results but don’t take action. There are people who have paid me thousands of dollars, but haven’t implemented anything I’ve said and are still in the same place years later.
Commitment to doing the work is what it really takes to grow as a person, not just as a business owner. It’s that dedication to long-term growth even when it’s hard.
That’s your power. You go through those hard, sh*tty moments but you come out the other side so much stronger. That’s resilience. That’s what it takes to be an entrepreneur because if you don’t have resilience and you aren’t prepared to do the work, then it’s not going to work.
Lillian: There are a few moments that really stood out to me that built that confidence. One is when I decided to launch my templates. Even though I wouldn’t launch that way now, it taught me a lot about selling. Another was when I had my biggest month ever whilst working two hours a day. That was a big lightbulb moment when I realised this was what you’d been telling me about – that I could bring people in but I didn’t need to work hard to do it.
Elley: That’s the thing – sometimes you hear something over and over again, keep trying it and then one day realise it’s happening and you’re doing it. Again, it’s proof of your commitment to the journey, learning, embodying and doing it.
Lillian: In complete honesty, that lightbulb moment happened and everything sunk in, but unless you keep embodying it and practicing it then it can unsink in.
Elley: Sometimes what happens when we have that lightbulb moment is that it finally clicks and you have your biggest month ever or whatever it is, but then you’re thinking, “Was that just a fluke? Was that a once-off? How am I going to do it again?”
That’s then what we work on. You can do it again, it can be repeatable and it can be even easier. That gets to be the new normal. The conversation changes from “Can I do it?” to “I know I can do it, I need the self-belief behind doing it again and sustaining it.”
Sometimes we need to hear something many times for it to click and for it to click in different ways. Us having that conversation a bajillion times led to you having your biggest month ever. Now you’re going to see it from a different perspective and have different things come up as you go for your next level.
Lillian: Okay, let’s throw out the next question. Working 15 hour weeks – do you actually do it? What does it look like?
Elley: I know we’re all taught that you have to work a bajillion hours, but sometimes it still blows my mind that people wonder how I do it. I don’t want to work more than I want to work, that’s not the vibe.
Yes, I actually work 15 hours a week. It’s different week to week. Some weeks I might work 10 hours, some weeks I might work 20 hours. I work on the podcast, I create content and I check in with my clients. Sometimes there aren’t any client messages to reply to, sometimes I’m messaging for a couple of hours. I don’t count journaling and mindset work as work – to me, that’s personal development. So every day is different.
Here’s how I do it. I only do the things that I want to do. I don’t do the things that I don’t want to do. When I work, I work. I don’t fluff and half-ass things. I don’t get in my head about whether it’s good enough or if I should do things differently. I just focus on what needs to be done, trust that it’s good enough and move on.
Once I’m done for the day, I’m done. What a lot of people do when they try and work less is that after they’re done, they get bored and think they’ll just quickly do a few things. It’s never just “quickly”. Walk away.
Fill your life with a heap of sh*t you love doing. Your life has got to be exciting for you to want to do it, because otherwise you’re just going to literally live to work when you should be working to live.
Lillian: You’ve said to me before that you have to embody it before you’re ready. If you want to work less and have more time for your life, then you have to work less to work less.
Elley: I remember when you wanted to do a two-week turnaround for your website design. I told you that you should always add on an extra week or two because you might get sick, you might want to chill out or you might just not want to be on your computer for 10 hours a day. It’s great for your clients who got their website within two weeks, but then you also feel pressure to have to show up every day and do your best work.
When you put pressure on creativity, creativity cannot thrive. Creativity thrives when you give it space to flourish and feel free.
If you’re a service provider and you’re delivering a final result to your clients that requires your creativity, then you need to make sure that you are giving yourself enough space because some days you aren’t going to be feeling creative. Taking time to chill out is actually required for your creativity to flourish. That’s where people go wrong – they think that they have to work every day consistently in order to grow their business, but actually taking time off when you need to is going to bring you better results.
Having that time in place for nourishment and self-care is actually going to benefit your clients. We don’t give it enough credit but it’s so transformational.
Lillian: So if you’re working 15 hours a week, what does today look like specifically?
Elley: Today’s a bit of a different day because my partner Jye has taken today and tomorrow off work so that we can utilise the sunshine and get some gardening done! So this episode is the only work I’m doing today.
Let me give you yesterday instead. I got up at 8am for a 9am call with one of my clients who is an interior designer and we spent an hour making a plan for my office. I wrote a post, which usually only takes me around 10-20 minutes. I try to create my content in the moment rather than scheduling it out in advance to make sure I’m always in the right energy. I find the best times to create content are either when I’ve woken up, just exercised or just had a really good conversation with someone.
I had lunch with Jye (which I do every day) and we walked outside with the dogs. I did some gardening and then I checked WhatsApp to reply to my clients and do some voice messaging. I did some money journaling and EFT, which I talk more about in another episode here. I played PlayStation for the rest of the afternoon and after Jye got home, we had dinner and watched TV.
Most of my days are like that. A full day for me would be a couple of client calls and a workshop or podcast interview. After that, I just chill out.
Lillian: I know that you have a couple of days in your week that are dedicated to a few different things. Tell us about the overall structure of your week.
Elley: It’s funny, Mondays used to be my favourite day because I was so energised. Nowadays, my weekends are so busy that afterwards, I feel like I need a day to myself. I love Mondays being really slow days for me where I can just chill out and sleep in. The only work I would do on a Monday is check in with my clients, because I do that every day, Monday through Friday. If I feel like it, I might do some other work, but only if it feels aligned.
Tuesdays are when I schedule things like podcast interviews and meetings. Wednesdays and Thursdays are dedicated to coaching calls with clients, and then on Fridays I just don’t work.
Essentially, I only really work Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. That’s when my energy is at its peak.
Lillian: That’s the freedom of having your own business. Use it.
Elley: I hit 3 years in business the other day and was reflecting on this. When I first went full-time in business, I would work 9-5 because I thought that’s what I had to do. Now I just get up when it feels good and work when I’m energised.
You have the freedom of being able to do it however you want. You’ve just got to be in tune with your energy.
Lillian: I’m going to rapid fire some questions at you. What is a resource that is not your own that has shifted your approach in business?
Elley: I love a good money mindset book. The best book that I’ve resonated with is Secrets of the Millionaire Mind by T. Harv Eker, which you can get using my affiliate link. It’s a great book that I’ve read 3 or 4 times.
Lillian: Now let’s talk about resources of your own. If someone wants to get in on working with you, where do they start?
Elley: Honestly, I have something for everyone. If it’s about clients and selling, then Magnetise Your Dream Clients is my best program. It’s where we break down aligned clients and aligned selling, empowered vs disempowered clients and not having to handle money objections.
If you’re more interested in embodying more ease and flow to work less and earn more, then Your Business, Your Way is the best one. In fact, I’m going to be relaunching that program later this year, so if you go to the sales page, then there’s currently a sneaky pre-sale price to save your spot!
For attracting clients using content creation, Content For Hell Yes Clients is a really good live workshop I did that goes into exactly that. We also go more in-depth on this in Magnetise Your Dream Clients, where you also get live support from me.
Of course, my favourite program is private coaching. I just thrive in a 1:1 container, both as a client and as a coach, I truly think it’s what I’m meant to do.
Lillian: It is truly special. I’ve had other coaches and you just do it differently. I can’t put it into words, but it hits different!
Elley: Thank you! This has been so good, I appreciate these questions so much.
For everyone listening, Lillian is incredible and you all need to follow her if you aren’t already! If you need a brand and website designer, don’t look at anyone else, she is honestly amazing.
Lillian has also started to work with designers to help them embody more ease and flow and to bring in really aligned clients.
Can you share with everyone what you do and the different ways that people can work with you?
Lillian: Absolutely. For people who want to work with me for branding and websites, I work with women who don’t want to fit into a box in their industry. You don’t want to be average, you want to stand out, you don’t want to do things the way that everyone else is doing them. That’s my zone of genius. We not only make things look beautiful, we get very clear on what your vision looks like and make it super desirable for people who have never seen something like that before.
What we’re helping clients embody their highest self through their branding and website. When people see a fully embodied coach or service provider, *that’s* when they want to buy. I’ve had clients jump from being stuck at $8k months to stable $20k months. I’ve had clients book out. They honestly blow my mind and it’s because we’re helping them embody their highest self and people are attracted to that.
I also deeply believe that my clients can have unexpected, unrealistic results. I tell them that, they believe it, and then they go and do it.
For designers looking for coaching, the essence of my coaching is about helping designers to not fit into the average ‘designer’ box, similarly to what I do for my other clients. It’s about applying a more empowered, magnetic vibe to their business and being their own best client, because as designers, we always put our clients before ourselves. We help them stand out but end up in the shadows.
If you’re interested, you can find me on my website or Instagram.
Elley: And you’re a pure embodiment of everything you just said. You’re teaching from experience and that’s really powerful.
Lillian, thank you so much. You’re an incredible person and an incredible client. Everyone, make sure you check out Lillian’s content because what she shares about her opinions in the design world is so good and so spicy!
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